Room recording
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Nate: [00:00:00] Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Talking About Birds, the only cardinal podcast that, like Jim Edmonds, could have second careers as reality TV husbands. My name is Nate Heininger, and I am joined by my co-host, Ben Samorka.

ben: Hey, Nate.

​

Nate: If you have an idea for an opening bit, text or leave us a voicemail at 848-48-BIRDS or, of course, join the Bird Squad at patreon.com/talkingaboutbirds. Uh, and thank you to the person who sent that in via text message, whoever you are, wherever you are. They submitted a whole bunch of really good options, and that one made me the, laugh the most.

Hambone, what do you think about us [00:01:00] as reality TV husbands?

ben: I, I think I would be better than you, and I'm, I'm not even... I'm not trying to... I,

Nate: wait, hold on.

ben: Y

Nate: um

ben: you

Nate: I app- you come out firing.

ben: Y uh you've told me uh when I've expressed emotion or something like that I've never felt that way about anything a and mine you know what I feel like is a pretty normal human emotion

And you know my uh

my wife she's in the Bravo verse We watch you know some of those shows uh Real Housewives uh that kind of stuff And you gotta you gotta be hurling You could hurl the insults You could you

Nate: Yeah,

ben: You

Nate: I could get fired up.

ben: But you

also

Nate: get fired up.

ben: when somebody says that the thing that you're wearing or that you're stupid you That has to be that has to be the most devastating news that you've ever heard to develop a whole season arc out of it and I think that I would be a little more equipped to do that than

Nate: All right, let's try this right now.

ben: you would lose [00:02:00] steam Even if you were

Nate: Let's try this.

ben: you would

lose steam in like two

days

Nate: all right, tell me, tell me something, Hambone.

ben: Um

Nate: my, uh, my, my, my fit.

ben: uh uh 2014 called

Nate: Fuck.

ben: have got to get that T-shirt back I

Nate: I, look, all right, now this is a custom print from an artist that we know who lives in San Francisco, and now

ben: mean

you aren't trash

Nate: I am... I've never been more mad at anything in my entire life, and I'm gonna go and get a gun.

ben: That's pretty good

Nate: Did that work?

ben: l a a lot of times legal troubles follow these people and that becomes arcs on the show too So if you were to brandish a weapon at me that's I mean that's at least a few episodes

Nate: I'm aiming, I'm gonna aim at your ankles. I'm gonna do the Yosemite Sam. I'm gonna make you dance.

ben: Yeah And

Nate: Yeah.

ben: you learn that I was lying about uh

Nate: You actually did like the shirt.

ben: I've been working on this entire time and you realize [00:03:00] I don't know

Nate: I've always wanted to be a dancer, and it's a huge undercut that you were working on a dance recital.

ben: they have writers and producers I

think if we had writers

and producers we'd be set up

Nate: Well, we, as we talked about last week, this show of course is heavily scripted and, uh, produced and whatnot, so, um, maybe we should start to divert the show into sort of a celebrity gossip,

ben: Yeah

Nate: th- I don't actually know how any of it works.

Although you've given a pretty good example, I suppose, and I feel like I played the part quite well, thank you very much.

ben: Again I think I think you could do it for for a day

Nate: yeah.

ben: think you have the steam though I I

Nate: No, I, uh, I think that's probably a, uh, a fair assessment. I think I would give up immediately.

ben: Yeah

Nate: Yeah.

ben: I think

Nate: in

ben: I I you

Nate: the

ben: do it I think that I would be I

oh huh

I don't know

Nate: I was thinking about this. There was a time in your life, in our lives, I remember you expressing a [00:04:00] sincere desire to create a tape and submit to reality TV shows.

ben: I I definitely thought that I would be an entertaining Real World contestant

Nate: Yeah.

ben: Real World I was I I definitely watched that show in like high school

Nate: Yeah.

ben: Um and I I just always thought like just a true agent of chaos would would be a Yeah like somebody who is like

Nate: Yeah.

ben: yeah j losing their mind

Nate: The sloppy dirtbag role would be fulfilled by Ben Samorka.

ben: Yeah it's like Oh where's where's Ben He oh he left the house cause he's grabbing catfish out of the river Um

Nate: Yeah, that's a thing you've, you're known for. That, yes, certainly it's because you're grabbing catfish out of the river. I think

ben: to bring some some real Midwestern trash to these uh coastal elites TV show

Nate: Hmm. Yeah, I don't know enough about any of the shows to think of one that I would fit in well. I certainly went through that period of like

ben: behavior I think I

Nate: [00:05:00] Yeah.

ben: I could fulfill that

Nate: Well, I do have two podcasts, so clearly there's a part of me that is ki- is, is, uh, desiring that. But, um, but you know, I bring it, I wanna bring it real to people.

That's my problem. They call them reality shows, but but I don't think they're quite real at all.

ben: That's an interesting thing to say

Nate: Uh, anything else on reality shows?

ben: Um

Nate: I

ben: I I was just reading about this You know I like Taskmaster I was just reading

Nate: Yeah.

ben: reality show where it's a bunch of comedians in a house uh and it's f it's filmed over one day and the whole goal is to not laugh If you laugh you get kicked out of the house Last

Nate: Oh.

ben: Uh I have not watched it yet

Nate: interesting.

ben: this is that's my kind of reality

Nate: So I think game show is different than reality show because game show I'm, I, I've, we've- I think we've [00:06:00] even talked about it on this show. I would... There's a ton of game shows that I would love to participate in, Taskmaster being one of them. I just, Molly and I just finished series seven, uh, so we're gonna start another one here pretty soon.

Um, but yeah, I, I would... Even something like Wheel of Fortune I would love to go on.

ben: Yeah

Nate: Um,

ben: much every game show I would I would love to do

Nate: yeah.

ben: with but yeah like you know we're a big Top Chef household That's like a it's like a it's more of a game show than anything But

Nate: Yeah.

ben: there are reality show elements and and that's really all I can get into

Nate: Yeah, you sneaking over, cutting the cord to their stand mixer, that sort of thing.

ben: There there used to be like hookups and and like fighting on the show Now I think it's just like treats it as a business opportunity so they're all kind of like I'm happy to be here and to be competing with these other folks

Nate: Yeah.

ben: like a resume builder rather than a

Nate: Straight shot to, like, D-level celebrity status.

ben: Yeah but even now you know you hop on [00:07:00] Instagram you sling a couple of pans ironclad pans or whatever and you know you're that's that's free money right there

Nate: Yeah, I, I forget where I heard about it, but someone was talking... It might have been on another podcast, I don't know. But someone was talking about someone who got, who lost on Top Chef because their food was too spicy, and they started a hot sauce company.

ben: Right Exactly

Nate: which is exact- yeah, I mean, it's almost like that was cooked up from the beginning,

ben: Yeah So yeah Anyways that's that's where I'm at pretty much

Nate: Yeah. Yeah, I would love to go on almost any game show. Um, the, the... That

ben: a good Amazing Race duo

Nate: would be fun. Those are the ones... There's, there's a, uh, there's a British one, I, I can't remember the name of it, but I have... I'll, I'll, I'll find it. Um, and just know it I guess after I find it.

ben: Oh

Nate: basically the game is, um, they're in Europe, and one person has a tracking device on them, and the other person just has access to that tracking [00:08:00] device.

And the person has, like, a two or three-day head start. Uh, and they can, they have, like, a budget to go anywhere. Uh, and they basically have to avoid being caught for a certain amount of time, an extended period of time.

ben: would be very fun

Nate: Uh, and so they can see, they're like, "I can tell they're on a train,

ben: Yeah

Nate: through France."

So it's like, "I need to get to the train station ahead of them," and, and, and basically they're trying to preempt where they're traveling and how they're traveling and, and find them. And they have a tracker, but you know, the person is trying to run,

ben: Yeah

Nate: and they have a head start. So that sort of shit I would absolutely love to do

ben: that would be very fun

Nate: We've talked about doing a Cannonball Run, you and I, which, uh, we'll do at some point, I think.

ben: Not a reality TV show or a game show but I do think it would be a blast and we

should do it

Nate: it's like some of these, right? All-- You would just... If we just had another team doing it also.

ben: it for content

Nate: Well, I mean, if, why would we do anything if we're not doing it for content? [00:09:00] Um, speaking of content, I suppose, well, let, let's, let's get one more thing. You high-fived Dinger over the weekend, and

ben: yeah

Nate: that must, be celebrated.

ben: I high-fived Dinger over the weekend I completed Uh it was mostly if if you remember last episode I was really not feeling great Um that kind of carried through the weekend a little bit About halfway through that 5K I hacked up something that was unholy onto the streets of Denver But I kind

Nate: Yeah,

ben: better after

that

Nate: y- I bet you sounded great on last week's episode. We didn't really get to talk about it on the show, but obviously your voice was locked in from the start.

ben: Yeah

Nate: a little mid-run puke, not usually associated with a shorter distance like a 5K, but, you know, you gotta get it out sometimes.

ben: feeling good but I

Nate: Yeah.

ben: to do it Had had a good time Had a good run High-fived Dinger I did the little uh you know going around the outfield I did the home run robbery bouncing off the wall

Nate: Mm-hmm.

ben: then had a 9:00 a.m uh [00:10:00] Kerr's banquet um which really set everything off right You know It was a it was a good day

Nate: Nothing like on a, when your stomach's feeling bad, nothing like running for three miles and then pounding a beer.

ben: Yep

Nate: Yeah.

ben: it brought me back to life It was it was required

Nate: Well, I know you've got a much longer race this weekend, so good luck.

ben: Yes

Nate: hopefully you make it through.

ben: Yeah

Nate: that one runs right by your front door, right? So you could actually just bail midway through.

ben: it's the final mile is by our

Nate: Oh, damn.

ben: really you know if I make it to the house I gotta

Nate: You might as well just keep going.

ben: Yeah

Nate: Yeah, yeah. All

ben: But

Nate: right.

ben: through the Denver Zoo and I'm excited I'm gonna high-five some monkeys

Nate: Oh, yeah. The-- We went to the Den- Last time I was there, I went to the Denver Zoo. Um,

ben: Bragging

Nate: the thing that stood out to me the most is there's a ton of "see something, say something" signs all throughout the Denver Zoo, which is a little bizarre until you realize that there's a number of exhibits [00:11:00] that if the, uh, wildlife so chooses, they could very easily just step right out of their thing, including the, I think it's the chimp area.

ben: Yep

Nate: they very, very easily could just climb right out or drop out.

ben: Yeah they have like uh they have like a few islands and you can there's like a walk path a walking path that goes like in between the islands and there's like trees and ropes that are hanging over the walking path so the chimps could just climb out drop you know start killing a family or you know

Nate: If we're lucky.

ben: Yeah

Nate: Yeah.

ben: Uh yeah

Nate: The--

ben: interesting zoo It's a good zoo

Nate: I, I enjoyed it.

ben: Yeah

Nate: Everyone in St. Louis will, you know, brag highly about St. Louis Zoo because it is a good one. But, like, I, I really enjoyed the time at, at the Denver one, and you certainly could get a lot closer to some of those little guys than you can at the St. Louis Zoo,

ben: Yeah I'm not

Nate: for

ben: good

Nate: better or worse.

ben: but it exists

Nate: Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, speaking [00:12:00] of St. Louis, let's talk about your St. Louis Cardinals.

ben: Wow

Nate: Uh, as we record today, the Cardinals are 24 and 17. They are two and a half games back of the Chicago Cubs, tied with the Milwaukee Brewers, uh, for second place, as well as the top wildcard spot.

ben: Yeah Yeah

Nate: but the wildcard race is, as you would expect at this point of the season, there's like six teams all within a game or two of it, so.

Uh, but if the season ended right now, the Cardinals would be in one of those wildcard spots. Um, you've got a few other numbers about the current standings. You wanna run through those?

ben: Yeah their uh run differential basically is calling them a 500 team Their Pythagorean which is like an estimated win-loss total based on their run diff is 21 and 20 um which is or uh wait maybe I think I think that's what it is I I might be misquoting

Nate: That's what I see.

ben: uh and and I I think really what I was kind of [00:13:00] curi is like I I started seeing like you know the ESPN there's these different power rankings that are starting to come out now that we have some season and the Cardinals are being ranked in the top 10 They have the fifth best record across MLB right now Um obviously I I think we know better than to to believe that they are a true talent fifth best team in baseball But I do think it's an open question are they a top 10 team in baseball Are they actually Are they just sequencing well right now Is the bottom about to drop out Um you know I I ca I don't think you could really say they're at the point of like Oh they've only faced off competition you know I thought they showed up pretty well against some some pretty good teams recently really standing out as the Dodgers and the Padres

Nate: Yeah. Should've been three of four, but, you know, it was, it was inevitable that Riley Bro- O'Brien was gonna blow a save. Like, it, it was inevitable. He's going to regress, and it's alway-- as a reliever, regression is always gonna be loud. But it was particularly [00:14:00] disappointing when you're so close to winning three of four against the Padres.

ben: Yeah And also it was you know there was no mistake made It just you know Riley Bryan isn't going to be perfect every single time

Nate: Yeah.

ben: you know the the A's are are essentially a uh 500 team but I thought that they won pretty handedly last night and they're at the top of their division Um so really the Cardinals have looked and I and I guess I'll just pose the question that I'm kinda getting at to you is like where would you your power rankings the year we're a quarter of the way in a little over that where are you ranking the Cardinals in the league

Nate: Man, it's tough because I don't want to just repeat everything that you said. Um, but I'll say, like, at this point I feel like the offense is legit. Um, I think that it will likely, like any offense, especially an offense populated exclusively by children, uh, is going to wax and wane. We're going to see slumps again.

Um, but I've become [00:15:00] convinced that this is a, at least an above league average offense. And I also think that the bullpen has stabilized to a degree that I feel pretty confident if they have a lead, that they're going to be able to hold it the vast majority of the time. Uh, and as we said on last week's episode, those two factors a- as well as the legitimately one of the best defenses in baseball, that is enough to be a winning baseball team.

I, I am convinced right now that they are a winning team. Now, does that mean, uh, the final record's 82 and 80? Uh, you know, maybe. Very, very likely, but that's still a winning team and significantly exceeds what the projections were from basically every single projection system coming into the season. No one expected them, outside of maybe I think ZIPS, if I recall correctly, had them closer to 500 or right around it, whereas everyone else had them at, like, 70 to 72 wins.

ben: Right

Nate: Um, and [00:16:00] so I, I'm convinced at this point that they are better than that. They're going to exceed their preseason projections. We had, uh, someone in the Discord, in the Birdscored, doing some interesting math, also highlighting that, which was fun. Um, but are they actually top 10? I know the, the rotation has been better as of late.

It has seemingly stabilized to some degree. I got really worried about Polante and, and last night he did pretty good in a, uh, in a ballpark built for hitting bombs. Um, but I'm just not convinced yet that the pitching, the, the starting pitching is good enough to make them anything much better than right around 500.

And I don't think a team that is right around 500 is top 10. But I don't know, I'm splitting hair, hairs here. If you told-- If you had said, "Are they top 12, top 13?" I would absolutely agree, you know? So I'm, I'm, I'm probably [00:17:00] trying to be too specific, hit the head too hard on the, the nail, or hit the hammer too hard on the nail of the head, you know, to, to nail down exactly are they

ben: about hammers Nate You don't have to explain any more to me You

Nate: Just check out our newest reality show, Hammer Time. Um,

ben: Yeah I think

Nate: do you know what I'm saying?

ben: Yeah I think that there's some accur accuracy and I agree with what you're saying I also think there's like you know Cincinnati is is probably underperforming Uh Toronto is definitely underperforming Baltimore uh Seattle um uh Detroit Uh there's a lot of teams that are underperforming right now So I think that for a team that is over-performing by just pure luck or or sequencing of of events or whatever I think that I can say confidently right now that the Cardinals are a top 10 in b league team in baseball I do not I'm not sure I feel confident about that for a remainder of the season I would expect for most of those teams I just [00:18:00] listed to probably have a better 75 of the remainder of the season over your St Louis Cardinals Um that being said the Cardinals do have this you know fun lever of being able to call up interesting uh arms and bats throughout the season a bunch of young guys You know who who's to say what a Jimmy Crooks or a Joshua Baez or a a name your your pitcher who might impact the uh rotation or bullpen could do for those remaining two-thirds of the se or three-fourths uh quarters of the season Um and you

Nate: Yeah.

ben: like Seattle is a true talent 500 team with Cal Raleigh being essentially worth nothing so

Nate: Man,

ben: season

Nate: you, see he, uh, took a shower in his full uniform as an attempt to, uh, like, wash away the bad vibes?

ben: I respect that but that had to be Like I hope there's a photo of that cause that had to be the saddest looking thing that's ever happened Major League uh

dugout Yeah

Nate: dumper. [00:19:00] Big dumpers, big feelings.

ben: just like him turning on the water and kinda hanging his

Nate: Yeah.

ben: his hat and dribbling down Um

Nate: You can't see the, it's like tears in the rain. Um, yeah, and well, and there's also, you're right about the call-ups and, and like, man, it would really only take like one of these starters to break out in a real way to where we felt like, oh, we have like a s- a stopper, an ace, whatever you wanna call it, to, to really make me start to feel quite different about the statement I just said.

It's just like right now, outside of Dustin May, um, you know, I, I... every start feels like, oh, okay, here we go, you know? And even Dustin May, it's not quite there yet, but I've been pretty confident in his starts. Um, but like, yeah, call up maybe one guy, or hell, make an acquisition or something, and the whole vibe of this rotation could change.

But the flip side also is there too, is that if the Cardinals are around 500 or maybe even a little bit [00:20:00] over it, but the, the front office wants to stick with the plan, there's a real chance that at the deadline they trade a bunch of guys and our last quarter of the season, last third of the season, is actually depleted again, and some of these pieces that were helping us win now are gone and we're, you know, and the rebuild continues, and we lose for the last three months of the season, ultimately tanking that total record despite the hot start, you

ben: Yeah

a-a I feel pretty strongly that irrelevant to our situation as the season winds down um Dustin May JoJo Romero Ryan Stanek should probably all be gone around that time

Nate: Yeah. Yeah.

ben: the question is is like can

Nate: Yeah.

ben: Kints come up and take the position of a JoJo Romero Can Bryson Mouts come up and take the position of a Dustin May a Hunter Dobbins um Quinn Matthews whoever you wanna throw into that pile Like maybe the team takes a huge step back by not having those pitchers Maybe this team [00:21:00] team stays the same Maybe we learn that Tink Kints is about to be one of the better closers in baseball I I think it's a huge question mark all up and down but I think the Cardinals should be aiming that direction either way and I think you are right that that'll it's going to Almost no matter what h Bloomingoon's are seeing the same numbers that we're seeing We're seeing the the the like I said multiple times already the probably the good sequencing the the run differential issue the FIP ERA issue that's kind of cropping up But um yeah Anyways I wanna talk start the episode I guess the episode's already started

Nate: yeah, man, listeners are looking down at the 23 minutes or whatever we're already in. Like, yeah, it's just now getting started. Maybe we should talk about reality show stuff a little bit more.

ben: sorry about that Um I apologize for nothing

Nate: Yeah, no.

ben: Um talk about Jordan

Nate: It was perfect

ben: um again And I and

Nate: [00:22:00] Should we? I feel like we haven't talked much about Jordan Walker this year, so I think it's good that you put it there, 'cause, I mean, we've got a lot to say, and we've really-- It's been an under-covered thing, I think, on our show.

ben: All right How how about we I'll Let me just say my thing and then we can move on to the next player or whatever But J-Walk continues to walk and bang uh in May in the month of May so far He has seven strikeouts against seven walks He has 12 hits and six of those 12 hits are extra bases He's got a couple of steals We saw that ridiculous home run of him in uh in San Diego pulling his hands in and almost hitting it over the Western Metal Supply building We've seen uh laced singles and doubles bouncing off the wall We've seen singles off the end of the bat Um

Nate: home run, I, I-- We've said it a, a bunch on this show, and I still don't think it was quite there yet. But I still feel like we have yet to see a true, perfect, like, A swing, barrel of the [00:23:00] bat, uppercut, down the middle Jordan Walker home run. I, I s- all of his home runs have just been like, he's just a strong guy, and at that, even that degree of contact makes it.

That one is too inside to really be what I'm talking about, but the path of that one was start- it was starting to look like what I've been talking about. Just the true, like, moonshot, is it leaving the ballpark? You

ben: Yeah

Nate: him to play in Colorado this summer and him to hit a 500-foot home run, you know what I mean?

Like, I'm still waiting for that one.

ben: Yeah We might see that and uh Rockies uh pitching is weirdly starting to show some cracks in their armor

Nate: What?

ben: which was unpredictable

Nate: Yeah.

ben: but you know I I just I I know we keep talking about it but I feel the need to keep talking about it because you know the things that we were saying two or three or four weeks ago all still remain the same All the process is still looking good I I think that he's taking his walks a little bit better He had that week where he was spiking on

[00:24:00] strikeouts We talked about it the strikeout rate uh

over the over the month of May has been around six It's 15 or 16 you know like everything He he hit a bump He bounced back We're

Nate: We

ben: the

Nate: love

ben: I think that you know we still have two more games and Ath one uh is gonna happen tonight uh the night that you and I are tag and then and when the day this uh episode comes out I think we might see another Jordan Walker uh bomb or two in Ath but I I I don't you know We need to appreciate this level of greatness that we're witnessing right now We're looking at a a top by F war overall a top 20 player in baseball by offensive war alone top 10 player in baseball the way he just turned 24 and you know it goes without saying but he is the biggest man I've ever

Nate: He shouldn't be that fast. That's the thing that makes me so uncomfortable about it. I can deal [00:25:00] with a guy that big,

ben: Yeah

Nate: know?

ben: Oh you can handle a

Nate: I can, oh, I can handle. Come here, big boy. Um, but he shouldn't be that fast. You know what I mean? It enters, like, uncanny valley, like, Terminator vibes thing, where someone that big is running that fast.

He went first to home, uh, in the game last night, and it was, I was just, it was uncomfortable. He's, he's too quick.

ben: Albert the Machine Are we gonna start calling Walker the the Terminator

Nate: It's pretty good. It's pretty good. He, uh, he, he, his eyes are too... He has sad eyes. He's too sad looking to, uh, to be a Terminator, though.

ben: But

Nate: You know what I mean?

ben: unsettles me even more

Nate: Yeah.

ben: Why you so sad

Nate: Why are you so sad? Perk up. You're a top 10 hitter in baseball.

ben: s-smile more toots

Nate: Come on, he's so much, he's so much prettier when he smiles.

ben: Yeah No one can

Nate: Yeah. [00:26:00] Yep.

ben: all right Uh J.J Weatherholt and Jordan Walker are currently tied with one point F war to both lead the team right now Like I said they are both

Nate: Yeah.

ben: players in baseball I don't really have any any insight or analysis on this other than I noticed it and I thought that that was crazy

Nate: 1.8, I mean, that's, that's the root cause of this offense being good this year, you know?

ben: The team

Nate: obviously, yeah, Burles- well, yeah, 'cause they're both playing well on defense, too. Burleson's in there in his own right. Herrera's been heating up. Um, but this offense has been driven by J.J. Wetherholt and Jordan Walker.

And, I, I mean, J.J., it's like, this seems like floor, you know? Um, I... We certainly can point to things that he could improve and likely will improve, uh, which is exciting. W- Walker, you're like, "Buddy, you could just do this for [00:27:00] the rest of the year, for the next five years, and we'll be good with it." I don't really see anywhere to improve.

ben: No

Nate: but w- but... And J.J., obviously, it's incredible for a rookie year, but point being is, like, he could be even better, you know? I think there's things he could be even better offensively, and that's super exciting. Um, so yeah, uh,

ben: So

Nate: it's...

ben: you know we didn't get to Obviously you and I didn't watch a lot of J.J down in the minors We've seen now 41 games from J.J Weatherholt Anything that stands out to you that you feel like we haven't hit on

Nate: Man, I don't know. We talk about this guy every single week. I, um- You know, I, I, I mean, like, the thing that stands out is the power immediately transitioning and actually being better than expected. If you had told me that at the middle of May he'd have more home runs than stolen bases, I would've said, "Well, then he must have, like, 12 stolen bases or something like that."

Um, but it's actually [00:28:00] he has eight home runs. Uh, and they've been legit bombs most of the time. Uh, the one last night he crushed on sort of a inside swing, too. Like, he, he looks... Uh, that's been the biggest surprise, is the power immediately. I think the strikeout's been a little higher, so I think, like, the stuff that you expect from a, a rookie, you know, uh, he'll get better at.

It's just the power I did not see coming at all.

ben: Yeah and that that's kind of what I wanted to talk about when I asked you that leading question was uh like he gets the ball in the air a lot better He almost uppercut His swing is almost uppercut

Nate: Yeah. Yeah.

ben: he really gets under it and the more he gets under the ball like you you rarely are seeing him hit a ground ball even if it's a successful ground ball He he gets the ball in the air and I think when you swing you know he's got about league average bat speed slightly better than league average bat speed But just getting the a the ball in the [00:29:00] air at the rate that he's doing things happen We're

Nate: Yeah.

ben: ball rate which is extremely good Um and his fly ball rate is 44 so almost half the time he's getting the ball in the air You have that league average bat speed You keep doing that over and over again and that's how you get eight home runs Yeah I don't think he is like It it's noth there's like no trick to it or anything like that It's just his his bat path is kind of angled up gets the ball in the air and you know we see it go out and sometimes it goes out like like you were talking about last night That was that was a nice one and sometimes they look a little cheap I don't really care Uh but they're getting out of the ballpark and he's giving himself those those opportunities which

is a lot of fun

Nate: I think, I said at the beginning of the season, in, in the off-season, if he hits 12 home runs this year, we should con- consider that a success.

ben: I think he's gonna

do that

Nate: I think he's gonna do that. Now, he did have a bit of a power slump. This one was his first in what? Like, three weeks.

ben: [00:30:00] Yeah

Nate: so I think that's going to happen and this is gonna normalize at, to some degree.

You know, 'cause obviously there for a little bit he was on, like, a 30-plus home run pace, and that's starting to come down. He's now in, like, a low 20s pace and, you know, he might end the season back again around 15 or 16 as the league has adjusted. Um, but either way, like, what this showcases is it's, it's possible at the Major League level for him to hit it like this, uh, which I didn't expect to see in his rookie season.

ben: You know and I this is probably a dumb thing to say but I I kinda this is how I'm feeling Like the league will adjust to J.J Wetherholt but J.J Wetherholt is going to adjust to the league and I

Nate: Right.

ben: getting And and there will be lean times of course because baseball is hard

Nate: Yeah.

ben: I have all the faith in the world in him kinda just putting together a really solid rookie season then continuing to be good and will just be good for a while And

Nate: Hopefully.

ben: is gonna be powered by him and J-Walk Hopefully we can get an extension done [00:31:00] now

Nate: Yeah, I know. Well, the rumors were there,

ben: Yeah

Nate: I think the Cardinals...

ben: to grill

Nate: Yeah.

ben: in a couple of weeks

Nate: Yeah.

ben: Better

Nate: a bunch of, get a bunch of free cookies.

ben: That that's what I'm talking about You get it All right D uh I know we've been talking about things that we've talked about before this season but I just I feel the absolute need to bring it up There was a little conversation about this in the Birds Squad last night Uh Pozo bozos close your ears I apologize um Joél Pozo has 22 plate appearances the year Um he is technically a Major League Baseball player in the fact that he's taking up a roster spot for your St Louis Cardinals But I I really think we uh we have just hit the point I talked about th there is uh [00:32:00] Major League innings and at-bats they're they're a hot commodity There is a finite amount of them Even the bench spot like I I just He has a 18 WRC+ He isn't catching He isn't playing first base He hasn't walked yet He hasn't clutched a homer Um he did have an end of the bat or off the end of the bat little single last night which was was fun We all like that But what are we doing What is this To to what end Nathan

Nate: Uh, well, first of all, how dare you? Second of all, what gives you the right?

ben: Yeah

Nate: third of all, he hasn't been taking at-bats from anyone, okay? He's gotten, like, three in the last month. I think 18 of those that you listed were all before, were in, like, the first or second week of the, of the season as well. So I don't see what the problem is with just having a bozo just hanging out on the bench, getting paid league minimum and every once in a while giving you a mediocre [00:33:00] at-bat.

Um, no, I... It is bizarre. I think we, we, I...

ben: this

Nate: Yeah. Well, I think part of it is that the roster has just been considerably more consistent than we expected. There's been no real Injury concerns, knock on wood. The guys that we thought were gonna be inconsistent have been consistent. Um, and they're just, like, who are you benching right now outside of the left field, center field sort of thing?

And you could argue Gorman, but, like, he-- the whole point is to give Gorman his, his extended runway. So that, we don't wanna bench him too much. So just, like, where does Pozo go when everybody else is locked in and the team is winning? You know? Um, and it's like there's not even that many pinch hit situations, 'cause you just want the guy that's in the starting lineup to take that at-bat, you know?

Um.

ben: I I do [00:34:00] think there to s to to pick in on that specific and I'm not saying I want Bozo Pozo to be the one that is pinch hitting

Nate: Yeah.

ben: I do think that uh i-if I had to nitpick on the early season strategy is I think that we have not been pinch hitting for Alec Burleson against

Nate: Lefties, yeah.

ben: as I probably would Now that being said last night he did have a nice little hit off of a lefty that was part of Cardinals winning that game yesterday So

Nate: Yeah.

ben: wrong

But

Nate: I...

ben: he has not been successful against lefties and that continues this

Nate: I know. I'm, I've, I considered doing a thing for it on this episode, but I wanna give it a little more time. But the Alec Burleson against lefties concern is, uh, seemingly increasing, uh, this year. But I think this is more the rebuilding strategy where, like, the Cardinals wanna win and they're playing to win, but part of, like, the good development decision is like, well, let's just, let's [00:35:00] let Burleson have a game-defining at-bat against a lefty, because if we actually want him to be a long-term everyday starter, w- he needs to have these sorts of situations.

If they were truly locked in on winning every single game, then yeah, he, they would have pinch hit for him. And I think if this was a win now team, Ollie probably would have. They're just, you just, w- why right now when we, we want him to get those important at-bats? Um, I'm mostly doing a bit. I agree, it's very bizarre that we have this guy who can't really hit and can't really play defense, uh, just sitting on the bench for the vast majority of the season already.

Um, it could just be that they don't have, like, because of how the, the use is, if it's not Pozo, it's someone else that is maybe just riding the pine at the Major League level instead of getting at-bats at Triple A, you know? Um, and so why not have it be the guy who's already here [00:36:00] versus one of your prospects who you actually like and would rather just be playing every day?

ben: I hear that hear the not rock the boat argument All of that makes sense if I didn't think that there were better catchers in the minor leagues right now that could come up and do a better job than Pozo's doing even just from an offensive standpoint

Nate: Yeah.

ben: but yeah uh I think he is not long for this roster

Nate: Yeah.

ben: just thought it was very noticeable and the fact that he got a start last

Nate: Yeah.

ben: his numbers for the season It's just I can't remember in however many years I've watched baseball the Cardinals specifically having a guy on their roster who has been so underutilized

Nate: I think, uh, Pozo is gonna be one of those, like, [00:37:00] jerseys that you see at a Cardinal game in 10 years that is, like, just worn to be the guy wearing the Pozo jersey.

ben: Yeah Oh I remember

Nate: oh, Pozo. Yeah.

ben: Yeah Um you know what If you are uh brave enough um to uh if you are that kind of guy that person I'm gonna guess it's a man doing this um more power to you I'm

Nate: Sure. Sure.

ben: All right

Nate: yeah, let's, uh... So I poured water on the pitching a little bit earlier. We have been all season,

ben: love to do

Nate: but there has been some reason.

ben: for the pitching That's what Nate likes

Nate: Come here, big boy.

ben: Okay

Nate: Uh, they are white jerseys. Um, no, remember they fixed the pants. We were all very sad. Um, the pitching has been better,

ben: Yeah

Nate: in May. So do you wanna run us [00:38:00] through some of the numbers?

ben: Nate we have a team ERA in May of 2.62 That is third in all of MLB which I found kind of startling Um they've been middle of the pack It's like 15th or 16th in baseball over that same time It's K per nine And other than Palante the group the starting pitching group has been nails in May Now Palante has allowed eight earned runs in this month of of May that we're in right now while the group of May Libby Leahy and McGreevy have allowed a combined nine this month obviously

Nate: by Bolande is not that bad over a couple starts, you

ben: not

that bad Um McGreevy in particular is doing something that makes no sense to me So I'm going to talk about this for a second

is hot Over his last three

Nate: Cardinal [00:39:00] Killer,

ben: 20 of batters And it seems to be all in his location and his pitch mix limited the fact that he's limiting walks so much He reminds me of Kyle Hendricks why I say that is because there's a stat that Fan Graph started using in 2020 called Location Plus I'm going to do a really quick reading of what Location Plus is and then talk about McGreevy and his ranks Location Plus is a count and pitch type adjusted judge of a pitcher's ability to put pitches in the right place No velocity movement or any other physical characteristics are included in the stat A breaking ball should go to different parts of the strike zone in a 2-0 and 1-2 counts And Location Plus captures that phenomenon command stats and an attempt to judge what a pitcher was intending to do with [00:40:00] each pitch and not add a predictive value to those models So Location Plus only looks at actual locations and implicitly assumes the intent is generally the same across the league in certain counts with certain pitches So this does is try to understand if he is putting pitches that are in generally advantageous places for those pitch types It is not a perfect stat by any means But McGreevy who obviously is not a huge stuff guy is currently ranked for seventh in MLB with a 1-11 Location Plus rating which is like I said seventh in MLB It's essentially elite Kyle Hendricks they only started doing Location Plus towards the end of his career But looking at his stuff stats looking at his pitch movement his velocity his pitch mix and his Location Plus stats I think we're looking at two extremely similar pitchers especially when Kyle Hendricks And if people don't [00:41:00] remember him he was that Cubs guy that pitched for the Cubs for like five or six years and was always nails against the Cardinals I

Nate: yeah.

ben: they're going about it in a very similar way And I say all that and I think it's important because while McGreevy is doing I think is passing the eye test When you look at the underlying metrics like I wonder if because of his extra special ability to locate all of his pitches if he is just going to continue to overperform what traditional underlying metrics might imply when regression is slated to be coming down the road Is that all making sense Am I speaking

Nate: It does. Uh, there... It's a long-- It's like The majority of pitchers in the mo- modern era are, are more about strikeouts and, and velocity and movement and all that sort of stuff. But there's always been a class of pitcher that's about [00:42:00] location and minimizing walks and, uh, taking advantage of the hitter and pounding it into the ground basically, and getting strikeouts every once in a while from that pr- that, you know, extreme location.

Uh, it is a finer line to walk, but there are many pitchers, Kyle Hendricks being one of them. Or, you know, if you wanna go to the very top, your sort of Greg Maddux type thing, right? The, the professor or, uh, like a Cliff Lee more recently, although it's not that recent. Uh, like never walks anybody, puts the ball exactly where they want, and they're always ahead.

Uh, and they just... They win with that attack. Uh, and I mean, based off of what you're showing here and what we're seeing, like that's obviously the, the approach that he's taking and, and with his sort of stuff, that's his best path to success. I think a lot of guys are trying to do that, you know. It's just they don't have the command to, to, to, to do it that way.

ben: All of his pitches have an at least a 105 or higher ranking on the [00:43:00] location plus stat His fastball the highest with a 117 So what that's showing you is that he is I think that it it speaks to his intelligence and also just his in his ability to locate the pitch and not make mistakes and I think that's borne out when you look at the rest of his numbers Um you know the inability to walk people the the hard contact that he doesn't give up those kinds of things So I I say all that to say that I think that he can keep doing this I think that he can run a ERA that is significantly lower than his FIP or xFIP or those other numbers and I think we're witnessing I mean he's I think he is probably on an especially hot streak

Nate: Yeah.

ben: not expect ERA for the remainder of the season or anything like that But I think he's doing something that is real I think we should cont continue to watch it and talk about it and it's kind of fun because it is very different than what like May this may not surprise anyone does not rank out very high

Nate: Wonder

ben: plus stat

Nate: what Ryan Stanek, [00:44:00] uh, shows.

ben: yeah

Nate: yeah. It's... You know, McGreevy, we, it... He's a guy who has just consistently been successful at every level that he's pitched at. And he doesn't get a lot of fanfare because he just, he doesn't strike a lot of guys out. So that's not what the league looks at right now. But he's been pretty damn good for his entire professional career, so we shouldn't be too surprised that he's being successful here at the Major League level This type of success, you know, we'll see.

I, I love the thesis statement. I hope it continues. I always think it's funny when, um, you said it yourself here. I think it's funny when intelligence gets ascribed to these types of pitchers. Uh, I think that's a very classic baseball thing, you know? It's like the professor, the, you know, that whole thing.

Uh, just simply because they don't walk people. I don't r- it, like they, they're b- your, it, it's presented as you're fooling guys left and right, so you must be [00:45:00] really, really smart. I, I don't really get it, but I like it, you know?

ben: I perceive So what I just broke down is basically Michael McGreevy is throwing the right pitch in the right situation

Nate: Yeah.

ben: location

Nate: And that's intelligence.

ben: reason I prescribe intelligence to that is because I I think some guys who are just throwers or maybe

Nate: Yeah.

ben: thoughtful about it are Ryan Stanicking it and being like Dude I throw 99

Nate: just wheeling and dealing. Yeah.

ben: it eat

Nate: the difference between a, that people say a thrower and a pitcher, right? Like, he's becoming a pitcher.

ben: a-and to be pedantic I don't think that that means that like Kyle or that uh uh Michael McGreevy is smarter in life than Ryan Stanek

Nate: Yeah.

ben: specifically when it comes to pitching I think there's a little more thoughtfulness and he also has to be because he's throwing 93 uh with not much run

Nate: Sounds like it's nerd bashing time, Hambone.

ben: Yep and we're the

Nate: We're the guys to do [00:46:00] it.

ben: McGreevy just wiping the floor

Nate: Dude, I c- uh, I'd get my ass kicked by the Bat Boy, let's be, let's be real. Um, the, uh, I forgot what I was gonna say. Please keep going.

ben: We'll keep going Well anyways I just I thought that

Nate: Yeah.

ben: Michael McGreevy's McGreevy is on a heater um and I'm excited to see what he continues to do with it His uh E-even with those stats like you know he's got a 2.18 ERA and his xFIP is 3.69 That's still

Nate: It's st-

ben: xFIP was down from where it was last year and it's still good even if he was playing true to that It it's not a not a complaint

Nate: Yeah. Yeah.

ben: I also wanted to highlight George Soriano who has been pretty good

Nate: Yeah, he's worked his way up. He's, you know, he's right there in the mix now in the setup situation. Uh, he's been pitching in the seventh inning, sixth inning. Uh, and, uh, you know, as- assuming this path continues, [00:47:00] he's got a real shot. If JoJo's traded, Stanek's traded, you know, we're ending the season with him in the setup role, and I know there's mixed feelings on it, but if Riley O'Brien is traded, like Soriano might be the future closer of this team for a while.

He's young, young-ish. You know, he's got good stuff. He's been looking great. The Cardinals obviously went and targeted him. We were all very confused by the trade at the time, but it's certainly satisfying and, um, almost like relieving. You know? Like w- when this trade happened, the Cardinals traded, uh, what's his...

Was it Padilla? Um, the slider king. What was... Am I mixing up his name with someone else? Uh, anyway, a, a younger reliever with perceived very high upside. The Cardinals traded for this guy who has no options and was, you know, Granillo. Yes. Padilla is a prospect, uh, in the system. So, um, yeah, it, it really felt like [00:48:00] a lopsided trade from a Cardinal perspective.

Remember, we were like, all of us were like, "Why the hell did they do this?" This guy, like that, Granillo's awesome. This guy's like failing out of the national system. And then here we are, uh, as, as he's excelling. So, uh, it's, it's, um, I mean, frankly, we've just been pretty happy with everything that Heim Bloom and Goons have been doing, and this is looking like a pretty big, uh, you know, feather in the cap as far as player, uh, acquisition goes.

ben: If you're curious Andre Granillo uh has been uh pushed back down to Triple-A for your Washington Nationals Uh with the Nationals in eight games he had a 9.64 ERA and was striking out 6 of

Nate: Oh.

ben: A with a 12.86 Um George Soriano 19 games played He has a 3.5 ERA [00:49:00] striking out guys He does have a bit of a walk problem but I'm not worried about it yet And really what I wanted to talk about is his slider Uh in 2026 his slider is uh has is giving up a 442 OPS against it right now which is uh stunning and it is his most throwed pitch thrown pitch Uh and his changeup is carrying a 310 OPS against it right now His two elite pitches I think when you're watching him you could just see that It's it's pretty clear The fastball's got good

Nate: Yeah.

ben: it but those that uh slider and that ch the changeup in particular is just nasty I think he should start throwing it to right-handed hitters more often uh than he has been so far because I I think it is disgusting Um now with that being said uh people do demolish his sinker His sinker is his least used pitch and he currently is giving up an 1.831 OPS on that pitch early in the season Um so really you [00:50:00] know it's time to throw away the sinker or at least use it as little as possible fastball's decent and that changeup slider combo is deadly Um I really feel like that's only gonna get better as the season goes on and and he gets more confident and into better situations and all that But he's been he's been pretty good

Nate: Yeah.

he's been fun to watch, and I said everything I already wanted to say about, like, the expectations around him. And, uh, yeah, I think there's a, a... Stanek and JoJo are certainly gone. Um, well, assuming... Like, Stanek has been getting better and better. Uh, he's gone assuming that he has trade value, which you might not have said a month ago.

But I do think he's getting... He's putting it together a little bit more and, and they'll be able to get something for him, assuming the next month and a half goes well.

ben: He has not given up a run in May so that's

Nate: Yeah.

ben: All

Nate: you see Dustin May pitched on May 3rd, and his number is three? So his, uh, his jersey, the back of [00:51:00] his jersey was also the date.

ben: That's incredible

Nate: Isn't that fun?

ben: Yeah I uh I'm

Nate: fe- I feel like that's...

ben: myself

Nate: He's speechless, folks. Uh, all right, I'll take the next one. We got fun, fun thing happening. I know particularly you're a big fan here. Uh, Lars Nootbaar is starting his rehab assignment on May 15th. The deformed man returns.

ben: Yes We've been talking about this for a while I think we teased it last week It seems like it's officially going to happen Friday the day after this show comes out Really I'm I'm I am going to be looking at minor league box scores I'm very curious to see how

Nate: Yeah.

ben: very curious to see the r the interviews with how he's feeling Um obviously they've taken their time You would expect him to feel healthy and and to ramp up slowly And you know I my my [00:52:00] expectations for Lars Newbar are revitalized right now I I am I I think health is extremely important Um and I we learned

Nate: nothing more important than your health.

ben: for a while and um my expectations are high right now I'm I'm hoping

Nate: Yeah, it, uh, he, you know, he's been a guy with, uh, incredible expectations placed upon him for years, mostly because of the underlying numbers and just that award-winning smile he's got.

ben: and

Nate: Um-

ben: tongue

Nate: And, and the tongue, uh, lest we forget. Uh, can't forget that.

ben: No

Nate: these damn deformed heels, you know, have maybe been part of the problem.

We really don't know. Like, no one really knew about this until middle of last year, right? So maybe this has been an underlying cause. You could certainly see why this would significantly impact someone's ability to hit a ball really hard. Um, but we really don't know. Um, but the, the perception is fully healthy, fully ready, [00:53:00] and I think wide open playing field, uh, or opportunity for playing time.

Though I imagine just from how these things typically go, they'll probably wean him in. You know, he's gonna get plenty of days off, off those heels, uh, as he gets brought back in. Um, I'm excited. I mean, it... this is a potentially fundamentally lineup changing return, right? It's, it's like, it's like making a trade, Hambone.

ben: It's making

a trade

Nate: you've, got a potential 400 OBP guy who can hit the ball incredibly hard slot right back into a very good offense, but an offense that has struggled in the bottom half of it. So, uh, like this is the sort of thing that if he comes back and he's healthy and he performs even somewhat to expectations, you do start to be like, "All right, this Cardinal team is actually just good now, not like over-performing."

ben: Yeah you think about it from Lars point of view too Y y the way that last year ended going into [00:54:00] off-season surgery finding about his deformities all that stuff And then he's you know we're 40 games into the season The Cardinals are in second place Everything is going well The young team is fun We're winning now he's gotta be r really excited to get back into the lineup and and

Nate: Yeah?

ben: and and not having to be the guy I bet he probably thought he was gonna have to be you know the the offensive

Nate: Yeah.

ben: And and now he'll rank fourth or fifth

Nate: I bet. Yeah. Well, and, and you kinda got there too, but like just the energy of this team,

ben: Yeah

Nate: the fun. You know, you can certainly see him just going ape shit in the dugout every time, uh, Jordan Walker hits 120 mile per hour home run, you

ben: Hell

Nate: Yeah. Um, we wanna touch on a couple guys in the minors real quick, just a little bit of excitement, and then we're gonna get to the back half of the episode.

Uh, the Cardinals have promoted Ryne [00:55:00] Rodriguez,

ben: Yes

Nate: which is... Man, this guy.

ben: Yep

Nate: guy. I... So the question we talked about a little bit last week- You know, is he a catcher? What are they gonna do with him? I don't think we have a full answer on that, but he's, he's fast-tracking. Uh, we might see Ryne L next year,

ben: Yeah

Nate: The way he is elevating the national press, I'm seeing... I'm starting to see him, uh, on... This is usually fantasy baseball stuff, but that is usually a bit of a precursor to real lists. Um, starting to see him in top 10 prospect lists, top 12, top 15, you know? Like, this guy is flying up the rankings, um, which is just, uh, pretty remarkable.

ben: Yeah Yeah he's young he's got power he's a good hitter He was rocking a 148 WRC+ in single A or in sorry in high A Um and in his first game in double A he caught Um so you know I don't know if that tells us too much of what's to come but Cardinals aren't fully out on him catching [00:56:00] just yet Uh and by the way he did get a couple of hits and a walk in his first game at double A so he

Nate: 19 years old at Double-A is very young. So all of that is graded on a curve, you know? If you look at, like, Colt Emerson, who is a, a top prospect right now, he's, I think, 19 at Double-A, and he's... If you look at his numbers, they're just sort of, like, pedestrian as far as what you would expect. But because he's 19, everyone's like, "Holy shit, this guy," you know?

Um, 'cause so it's all a matter of reference and age to competition. Uh, at this age, when you're 19 playing against a bunch of 22-year-olds, like, any degree of success is just com- uh, compounded, and shows. It, it hypes people because, you know, most of Major League, you're going to be playing against people much older than you.

The biggest stars in the game are in their late 20s. Uh, so if you can be really good against people much older than you, uh, already at, like, 19 years old, it's g- generally a good precursor to, uh, success [00:57:00] at, as, for an early debut.

ben: It's it's a lot to f of fun to think about where this offense might be in 12 months or so Who who knows what we're gonna witness But uh yeah pretty cool to see that

Nate: Uh, you wanna talk about Brian Dorris real quick?

ben: I think we got to talk about Brian Torres really quick Brian Torres had a 441 on base percentage during a full season at AAA in 25 Currently he has a 453 on base percentage in AAA He's 28 He's a lefty He's played second base and all three outfield positions over the last couple of years think you know if not now when

Nate: Yeah. Well, this is... He's sort of the inverse argument of a Ryne L, right? He's 28 playing in the minors.

ben: If he takes a 100-point dip on OBP he's still rocking a 350-ish OBP

Nate: yeah.

ben: pretty good and I don't know how it's gonna translate I'm not gonna sit here and tell you I've watched [00:58:00] 1,000 Brian Torres ABs and and I know what it looks like and it's gonna translate But I I think you see those numbers uh you know and it's kind of eye-popping Does this guy make more sense on the bench over a Thomas Sucheski Probably Um I I'm kind of like we're in the season of like just let's just see what you got man Like I I wanna see what this Torres fellow is doing But uh I mean gee like I said if he takes 100 points off it's good If he only drops f uh 50 points OBP that's amazing who knows what this guy

Nate: Yeah. Yeah. I imagine he'll get a shot at some point. You know, I don't know where right now. That's been kind of the thing we've been talking about. There's really no one you want out of the lineup, especially with Nootbaar coming back. Um, but somewhat, something'll happen. Someone'll get hurt or, or something.

ben: Something will happen Maybe Ivan starts um behind catcher a little bit more and maybe Brian Torres gets some infield starts or or DH starts or something like that But uh yeah I don't know I'm I'm curious Like I said all three outfield [00:59:00] positions maybe play

Nate: Yeah.

ben: don't I don't know But I felt like we needed to say it He's been carrying a crazy average on base

Nate: Yeah.

ben: while now and

Nate: Yeah.

ben: not sure we've said his name on this podcast

Nate: Yeah. It's a good call. Uh, well, we'll end this segment with, uh, the fact that the Cardinals have now, uh, surpassed the Reds in FanGraphs playoff odds percentage. Kind of fun. 27%.

ben: Keeps climbing Nate

Nate: It's climbing.

ben: know what to say about it

Nate: We're peaking.

ben: crazy Yeah

Nate: No peaking.

ben: Um but it's that's happening right now Those are the numbers Poor Reds

Nate: Yeah, poor Reds. Well, on that, we're going to, uh, talk about the upcoming series, do a little bit of league news, and play a little game. But before we do that, we wanna remind our listeners that this show is supported on Patreon at patreon.com/talkingaboutbirds. Uh, if you wanna show your [01:00:00] support for the show directly, uh, we would really love it if you would check it out and throw a couple bucks towards the show.

Subscribers at any of the paid levels get access to our private Discord server. That's the Birdscored. We've got people doing statistical analysis in the Birdscored now. We've got, uh, game day chats, where, where, uh, you know, if there's a news article about the Cardinals anywhere, it's being posted there quickly.

Uh, it's become not just a cool place to hang, but a good resource as a Cardinal fan. Uh, so check it out, patreon.com/talkingaboutbirds. Uh, we also appreciate anyone who takes a chance t- or takes a, just a mere moment to leave us a review on their favorite podcast platform. It takes no time at all, and it really does help.

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ben: There's the

Nate: w- yeah. Uh, Hambone, [01:01:00] where can people find us elsewhere?

ben: Yeah we're on all the socials You can find us on Blue Sky Instagram and TikTok You can watch this episode YouTube if you're one of those freaks Uh you can find all the podcast information including T-shirts and more at talkingaboutbirds.com Of course you can email us at talkaboutbirds@gmail.com and you can call us and leave a voicemail or send a text message or maybe many text messages to 848-48-BIRDS That's 848-482-4737

Nate: 848. 48 birds.

ben: Wow

Nate: all right, Hambone. What, what, what's the next series? Where are we going after, uh, Ath?

ben: After Ath uh the Royals are coming to St Louis for a weekend series which should be a ton of fun The Royals have not had a great start to the season [01:02:00] Um it looks like the Friday matchup is gonna be a old favorite of ours Michael Wacha against Dustin May Saturday game is Noah Cameron and Kyle Leahy and then Sunday will be Steven Kolek against Andre Pallante Um know the Royals are I I think that they're probably a little bit better than the way that they've been playing so far in the season I know you ta you've talked about Carter Jensen You you think he's a real guy He hasn't really clicked in yet Jack Caglianone hasn't really clicked in yet on this season their their top three are pretty damn good Michael Garcia who took a huge step forward looked great in the WBC Bobby Witt Jr might be the best player in baseball and Vinnie Pasquatino all Really solid solid uh uh players to kind of kick off their rota or their uh position player group

Nate: Yeah, and Michael Wacha, you know, obviously we have a long [01:03:00] history with that guy. Like, I saw something the other day that he, i- if you, if you do what we've done with, like, Miles Mikolas, where you actually look at, like, all the pitchers over an extended period of time, like, no one really talks about it, but Michael Wacha's been, like, a top 20 pitcher of the last seven years or something like that.

So he's, he's been really, really good. He just, he's on the Royals, it's not the flashiest version, and, uh, you know, it just, it doesn't really stand out. But he's been, he's been a very, very effective pitcher. Um, Bobby Witt has really, really started to heat up lately. Um, I think, I think the Royals are gonna end up as a pretty good team this year, but it is a lot of young guys and a lot of guys that are not, uh, really at their potential just yet.

ben: Yeah

their

is solid Um Cole Ragans is injured Uh I d obviously I

Nate: Yeah.

ben: They're not drawing him this week uh or this upcoming weekend But yeah they're they're a 500 team playing Or I think they're [01:04:00] probably above a 500 team and they're playing below that right now And they're they're a great team If that offense gets going if those guys that I called out or Isaac Collins remembers how good he was last year something like

Nate: Yeah.

ben: in this offense could really jump into the next level But they are

Nate: Yeah.

ben: not doing that right now

Nate: Well, the AL Central is still quite wide open, so I imagine they're gonna keep pushing. Um, after that, the Cardinals will have the Pirates coming to town. Uh, we just saw them. Uh, and it was a lot of fun as the Cardinals swept them in four games, which is always, uh, surprising. Uh, and nothing has really fundamentally changed.

Uh, Paul Skene has had some pretty good starts in between then and now though, so, uh, do you wanna run us- I actually haven't even looked at the pitching match-ups. You wanna give us the, the match-ups? Are we seeing Skene-

ben: on the Tu

Nate: Skene's...

ben: really good I'm

Nate: [01:05:00] Skee- Thanks.

ben: Tuesday Mitch Keller against Matthew Liberatore Uh Wednesday Cameron Mide Mide Mid Oh Miosit

Nate: Miterowski? M- M- Midlatsky or something like that?

ben: Man that is a Eastern European name that I can't pronounce

Nate: Come on, Samorka.

ben: Yeah it's not Car it's Carmen too Carmen M Mudzinski something like

Nate: Mid-

ben: heard of this guy before Uh against Michael McGreevy ace Uh and then the Thursday game is Braxton Braxton Ashcraft against Dustin May Uh so obviously you know Mitch Keller he's tough stuff but no Bubba Chandler no Paul Skeens It's probably good for the Cardinals And yeah I agree with you You know like Brandon Lau he keeps having a good start to the season Um but that's I mean we know this team I I have little faith in this team Um uh you know W will we

Nate: Ryano Hearn's having a [01:06:00] pretty good year. O'Neil, O'Neil Cruz has cooled off, but is still doing quite well. He can, any, any individual game, he can strike out four times or win the, put the, put the whole team on his back.

ben: And I'm kinda I still do think there's gonna be a time where Connor Griffin is going to get hot and it's I just hope it's not against the St Louis Cardinals

Nate: Yeah, well, he's certainly warming up.

ben: yeah

Nate: he's, like, you can start to see it. And again, for a 19 or 20 year old or whatever, like, he, no one should be upset with how he has started. Uh, but yeah, you certainly wait for that switch to flip, and all of a sudden he's hitting 300 and hitting bombs left and right.

ben: Yeah

Nate: he's not there yet.

ben: no But I f I feel pretty good about the Cardinals coming in and and taking two of three um sure would be a really good time I think they can do it Um I think we got a better offense than them and let's let's pound them baby

Nate: Yeah. Wow. Uh, all right. Let's, uh, let's check in on some league news.

ben: All right Uh this is just [01:07:00] a a warning of things to come I guess But Major League

Nate: Yeah.

ben: and the MLB Players Association held their first official collec collective bargaining meeting of 2026 in New York City on Tuesday Um they did not come to agreement on the first time they chatted Uh really much

Nate: have that been a surprise, though?

ben: That I I mean we I think we've talked about this They really I I think them missing any games is going to be an all-time fumble

Nate: Yeah.

ben: both sides I do think it it will probably happen But I think baseball's got some really good momentum right now and and uh sweeping that or or uh uh removing that momentum um I think is really really a bad idea So I hope that these meetings are fruitful and they figure it out um

Nate: They should turn it into a reality show. You think that would help?

ben: Yeah Yeah I think that that would help

Nate: Just like,

ben: or a reality [01:08:00] show

Nate: uh, I mean, maybe a little A, little B, you know, we can, uh, people can insult Rob Manfred's, uh, polo, and then he'll, uh, poison someone's, uh, uh, midday cocktail.

ben: Based on someone's mid You know what You should be a producer That's pretty good

Nate: I think that would be fun.

ben: Okay Uh the Guardians We got a trade Nate

Nate: Okay.

ben: We got a trade The Guardians have acquired catcher Patrick Bailey from the Giants Uh San Francisco will receive left-handed pitching prospect Matt Wilkinson and the 29th overall pick of the 2026 draft Um a corresponding move for the Guardians they also sent Bo Naylor down to the minors who was

Nate: Yeah.

ben: rough start to the season uh at least offensively I found this move to be a little odd Um I I I think it's [01:09:00] interesting that the Buster Posey-ran Giants decided to move on from inarguably the best defensive catcher

Nate: Yeah.

ben: I I I find that part of it to be very strange A and it just like of Uh you know they they ended up bringing up Bryce Eldridge as part of this as well and I I I don't really

Nate: Yeah.

ben: I get it from Cleveland's standpoint although like what are you guys doing with Bo Naylor He's been a big leaguer for two years What Why is he regressing so hard right now You you're you

Nate: I,

ben: did something

wrong there

Nate: he's also, well, Bo has also basically never been what they wanted him to be.

ben: Sure

Nate: know? He's been all upside, but has been pretty bad for pretty much his entire time. So I'm really not surprised that they've decided to move on from Bo Naylor and just like, all right, let's [01:10:00] just get the best defensive catcher in baseball, and like that is a huge floor lift for that team, I think.

And

ben: like Bo Naylor's a bad defensive catcher

Nate: Yeah.

ben: And like I feel like I would ride that upside play maybe but maybe they've just had it and maybe their internal

Nate: I don't know. He strikes out s- he's been really bad offensively. He's like black hole shit, you know? And Patrick Bailey isn't gonna crush the ball, but he also, he's like fine offensively,

ben: He has an

11 WRC+ in

Nate: All right. It's, it's pretty bad. I hadn't looked at him this year.

ben: than a black hole I I would

Nate: than a black hole.

ben: would guess that he's the worst hitter in in baseball this season I'm gonna

Nate: It's a good ... Yeah.

ben: I'm gonna pull that

Nate: Possibly.

ben: Um

Nate: the, the Giants have that new guy, Jesus something Gonzalez, I think, that I think they're pretty high on. He's been starting for them. I think they just decided let's turn the page [01:11:00] and go y- go even younger, you know? Um, it's, I, like the Guardians paid a fair amount. The 29th pick, that's pretty good.

Um, pretty good pitching prospect, but it's not like they sent the bank for this guy too, you know? So it is kind of a bizarre trade. You don't see people trading your starting catcher very often in May, you know?

ben: I

Nate: Um, but it signaled to me, like

ben: we should've been asking us for Pedro Páez Like I would've taken prospect and that that

Nate: Yeah.

ben: Páez and I would argue that Páez is a bit more valuable player than Patrick Bailey

Nate: That's, that's hard to, that's, that's tough to hear. I don't know if that's, uh, I don't know that I agree with that. Um, but, uh, maybe. An 11 WRC+ is tough.

ben: So I I

got it pulled

Nate: what's Fahey's rocking, at least like a 60 or something?

ben: It's gotta be It's it's definitely higher He's not on the first page of lowest [01:12:00] WRC+s on the

Nate: Hey, that's a win.

ben: both the players we were talking about are Nate So we got Do you know who the worst hitter in baseball is this year I will give you a hint He plays in the National League Central

Nate: Oh. Um. Damn. Uh, no, I, I, I'm sure I could get it with just a bunch of guesses, but nothing is coming to mind. Who is it?

ben: Hayes

Nate: Oh, yeah. I, I, I saw a headline the other day where the broadcast was basically like, "What's this guy doing here?"

ben: He has a 10 WRC+ Patrick Bailey second worst with the 11 Bo Naylor fifth with a 23

Nate: Okay.

ben: so it's hard out there

Nate: Do you wanna, do you wanna guess what, uh, Pedro Páez is? I've got it pulled up.

ben: I'm gonna guess it's like 63

Nate: 68.

ben: Oh that's

Nate: finish off the circles of the three and you were right.

ben: you go That was pretty close

Nate: Yeah.

ben: well yeah anyways kind of a weird move Uh [01:13:00] I guess we'll see Maybe uh maybe they'll unlock some Patrick Bailey offense and this will look like a total trounce uh here in a year or so interesting move to say the least Um all right final piece of news Uh just wanted to mention that uh the Braves announced that Bobby Cox passed away at the age of 84 Um and I will just say as somebody who grew up watching a lot of Braves baseball on TBS um and I had some affinity towards Bobby Cox and his no-nonsense umpire yelling attitude um sad to see Uh but you

Nate: Baseball legend.

ben: baseball legend It is funny him and Ted Turner both like kinda in the same week or so Um Bobby Cox 84 He gone

Nate: Yep. Yeah, baseball legend. Um, yeah, I mean, anybody of our age or older really, if you... The, the Braves dominated, uh, so yeah. Um, all right, Hambone, [01:14:00] we're gonna wrap up this episode with, uh, a favorite of ours. We haven't played it for a few months. Um, we're returning to Who Is This Guy?

ben: Ooh

Nate: So if you're... Yeah, you feeling locked in?

All right, let's f- let's find out. No, I could not. Um,

ben: rude

Nate: So if this- if you're new to this, if you've not heard this game before, I have the name of a baseball player who has played for the St. Louis Cardinals at the Major League level at some point in their career.

ben: Right

Nate: of clues that start, uh, very vague and get increasingly specific about this player.

Ben has to make a guess after every clue. Ben is typically pretty good at this and gets it around two, two or three, so we'll see. We'll see.

ben: happens Don't don't put anything on me

Nate: Okay. Uh, [01:15:00] you ready? You ready to go?

ben: Ready as I ever will be Nathan

Nate: Okay. Hambone, this player was born on November 7th, 1989 in Smyrna, Tennessee.

ben: 1989 in Smyrna So me and him are the same age Bet he's pretty cool Smyrna Tennessee Tennessee

Nate: Smyrna

ben: 37-year-old Tennessean Man I cannot think of a single Tennessee baseball player right now Um who's somebody who's in that age range who is 37 or thereabouts Um they're Wow Tennessee Tennessee I'm at a loss Nathan Um gosh I can't even [01:16:00] think of anybody who's in their late 30s right now Um I'm just gonna say um God I wanna guess better than this and I I know this isn't the answer but I'm just gonna say Miles Michaelis cause I can't think of anybody else

Nate: That is not correct.

ben: Yeah

Nate: In no particular order, this player played for Cincinnati, Boston, Minnesota, St. Louis, Oakland, and New York.

ben: Which New York team

Nate: Sorry, Yankees.

ben: Yankees Okay So he played Could you do it do the rundown again please

Nate: Cincinnati, Minnesota, Boston, Yankees, Oakland, and St. Louis.

ben: Okay Wow That's a lot Um played for Minnesota and the [01:17:00] Yankees I feel like that alone is not a huge pipeline Wonder is he still in the league He's right on that line where he may or may not be playing baseball Bouncing around that much makes me think you're a pitcher but I guess it doesn't have to be a pitcher Who the hell played for Cincinnati That's so many teams Really this is I feel like this is usually where I get better at it but that's so

Nate: You o-

ben: I

Nate: you often get it with just the teams, which drives me crazy. But,

ben: Yeah I'm struggling today Um I wanna think a little bit longer though Um wow Cincinnati

Nate: you wanna be on some sort of game show.

ben: Um

Nate: What is this but a game show?

ben: Yeah my mind is going to Luke Voit I don't think he played on that many teams and I I think that Also I think he was born in St [01:18:00] Louis not in Tennessee Um grew up in St

Nate: was he...

ben: I don't know

Nate: Yeah, he was a St. Louis guy, c- which of course we'd know that 'cause

ben: a

Nate: if you're from St. Louis...

ben: wife's high school Um shout out Lancers Um I don't know I'll just

say

Nate: I, gotta force you.

ben: yeah I'll say Luke Voit just to move on

Nate: No, it is not Luke Voit. Um, all right. This three-time All-Star, while intense on the field, was overall more soft-spoken and known for his love of horses and farm life.

ben: Horse intense on the field horses That all s no idea This this is this is a lot of uh um editorializing uh from Nate here so that's not very helpful

Nate: How so?

ben: [01:19:00] uh what is soft-spoken Nate

Nate: You'll, you'll know... You will know... You know what? This, these are things that are known about this guy.

ben: Okay

Nate: is a good question that does deserve some, uh, deep research. What is a horse?

ben: Yeah it's like really nothing is coming Oh wait Oh wait Wait no he's not from Tennessee Damn it Um I was thinking of a

Nate: Who were you thinking?

ben: Uh

Nate: Oh.

ben: age of 37 so it it it was totally wrong Uh but it's somebody who played at all those I I thought for a second I can't think of anybody Next question I got nothing

Nate: Wow. Okay. An unpre- I mean, you've, you've failed this game entirely before, but not making a guess. Okay. This player received Cy Young votes in three different seasons, and is currently the eighth highest active pitcher in baseball reference war.

Ben is [01:20:00] just staring at the camera blinking.

ben: Lance Lynn

Nate: No, it is not Lance Lynn.

ben: I cannot think of who has played for all these teams and also got Cy Young Yeah I I have no idea

Nate: His name may sound like a nickname, but it's actually not. Also, his middle name is Douglas, which is kind of fun.

ben: His name may sound like a nickname

Nate: I

ben: it is

Nate: thought you'd have it by this one.

ben: Um yeah whoever this player is I've I've memory holed them I have no idea

Nate: All right. Are you, are you throwing in the towel?

ben: Uh yeah I can't even think of a

player who

Nate: Cy, Young pitcher who played for the Cardinals in...

ben: Young

Nate: No. Received Cy Young votes.

ben: Yeah I mean that could be anybody I was just looking

Nate: Yeah.

ben: Alex Verdugo has MVP votes Cy Young votes mean nothing Um [01:21:00] yeah I don't

Nate: Just like you're always saying, "Stop the count." Uh, all right, Hambone, it is Sonny Gray.

ben: Sonny Gray oh my God

Nate: Yeah. Ben's taking a, uh, defeat drink here.

ben: Yeah

Nate: Gray

ben: Wasn't even on my mind That makes sense though 30 He's yeah that yep of course

Nate: Yeah. Yeah, I mix up the order in which the teams are played purposefully so that you don't just get a direct line of his career progression, you

ben: Yeah

I guess I just forgot he'd played for that many teams That was

Nate: w-

ben: throwing me off like trying to

Nate: there's kind of that middle part of his career where he got-- he bounced around a bunch, he was kind of middling, you know?

Um

ben: of somebody who's played for that many teams I'm like It's a reliever for sure So I was like

Nate: yeah.

ben: pitchers was not even in my brain Um yeah That was that was Hats off Nate you got me

Nate: Gotcha. And s- soft-spoken, but on the field very [01:22:00] intense, and

ben: Yeah

Nate: farm guy.

ben: that one I thought was insane That wouldn't

I That was not

Nate: supposed to be vague to some degree.

ben: that that one was that was a joke And the

Nate: Wow.

ben: is also new information to me I have never heard of Sonny Gray being a horse owner Those all three of

Nate: Everyone knows. Everyone d- he's always, you know, when he's up there,

ben: Is he I mean

Nate: he's always talking about horses.

ben: just Google Sonny Gray

Nate: he's always-- He's up there, you know, he's always like, "I, I was galloping on the field today," you know? He was...

ben: is coming up here.

Nate: That's not true, 'cause that's how I found it.

ben: me one piece of information where it is relating Sonny Gray to horses. 'Cause

Nate: Sonny Gray.

ben: up is, "Meet the gray horses running in the 2026 Kentucky Derby." I would love to be proven wrong on this. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I think you made that one up

Nate: No, uh...

[01:23:00] No, I'm, I did not make it up. I'll find it. I'll find it.

ben: That one, uh, uh, uh,

Nate: No.

ben: I really go back to my earlier... It was full editorial. It, it is total nonsense, that hint,

Nate: Okay,

ben: it was

Nate: you're just, you're feeling cornered and so you're, you're lashing out, and I understand. You talked a big game about being a game show guy.

ben: all the defense you want, but w- people heard it live. That was an insane thing to say, and also apparently not true because it's not

Nate: No, it is true, and everyone knows that it's true. Everyone knows it's true.

ben: I'm l-

Nate: it's common, it's common knowledge. It's all over the internet.

ben: two pages deep on the Google machine and

nothing is

Nate: you probably spelled it wrong.

ben: Which one? Sonny Gray or

Nate: Pro- probably horse, I think. You probably spelled horse wrong. Spell horse.

ben: This is

Nate: All right. If you're out there listening, um, and you also know that Sonny Gray loves horses, let us know.

[01:24:00] If you disagree, keep your mouth shut. Thank you very much.

ben: pages deep. I don't see a single article

Nate: Yeah, you probably have s- I think you have safe search turned on.

ben: Well, that's, that is disgusting.

Nate: All right, that's gonna-

ben: horse Cy Young candidate. That makes a lot of sense.

Nate: Nope. Well, nope, that's not, that's not what I'm saying. He loves horses. Uh, you'll find it. Just keep scrolling. Uh, that's gonna do it for this week's episode of Talking About...

ben: is a complete farce.

Nate: I'm right, you're wrong. You'll find it. Just keep going. Um, that's gonna do it for this week's episode. Thank you everyone for listening. Again, check out all the links. Consider joining the Patreon. Talkingaboutbirds.com has links to all of our socials and all the different ways you can support the show.

We will be back next Thursday as always with another episode. Ben is losing it. He's pulling his hair out right now. [01:25:00] Um, but that's, uh, that's what I'm going for here. So thank you again everybody. We'll be back next week, and until next week, go Cardinals.

ben: See ya.

​ [01:26:00]